I've been finding non-hyperbolic commentary on China a bit hard to come by at the moment so just wanted to say I appreciated this discussion and learnt a lot!
I really appreciate it too. It has been a bit eye-opening seeing various videos on YouTube, which while having clickbait in their titles “What they don’t want you to know about China!”, are actually just normal travel videos from people that visit many countries. You see that, and the debunking of the social credit thing you mentioned. You see that some ghost cities have been become more populated.
And you also see actual misinformation on sites like X. I saw a video claiming a baby bear was drugged and declawed and being used for kids to fight with for money. And there’s hundreds of comments from outraged people about how horrible China is. When really it was just a zookeeper that had raised an abandoned bear from birth and was wrestling with it to help it learn how bears play, before being reintroduced to a normal colony.
But obviously China isn’t just this ultimate paradise that has no problems. It feels hard at times to know what is justified good and bad things from propaganda on either side. So the balanced tone here is very nice to see.
“They really overestimate how much the average Chinese person cares about their government. It’s probably the same for Americans as well, right?” — I dunno, I think almost all Americans care a great deal about their government, and it’s a highly American quality to care. If it’s really true that most Chinese people don’t care about their government, the real questions are: Why is that the case? And is that a healthy state of affairs?
I actually agree with this - Americans care a lot more about their government than Chinese do, which is why they incorrectly project onto China, but is also a critical part of democratic culture
I think it’s more complicated than that. I think it’s mostly because China’s economy has been doing well and people’s lives are getting better, so they’re happy with the government. The question is, once things aren’t so great (which happens eventually for all countries and governments), what will happen then?
I’ve thought (from my very newbie perspective) that China really has some of the good aspects of monarchy, when it works. Long range planning, ability to just get things done, etc. They can do these ambitious projects and improve the lives of regular people. The trouble is what happens when you get a bad King/Emperor/Party that suddenly tanks everything.
Democracy is supposed to help with that issue, but it feels right now like the US has been having the worst of both worlds. Government constantly changing directions, not able to get much done, disempowered regular people, lives just keep getting worse, etc.
I’ve been feeling like one of those Gen Z people mentioned in the article. Like I know not everything is good in China, and bad things can happen to you in certain situations. But at the same time, you can see a lot of things there that we don’t have, and at least many people in big cities are having decent lives.
This was so thought provoking. I want to learn more from you and tian!
based af commentary from two based people
新年快乐兄弟们
I've been finding non-hyperbolic commentary on China a bit hard to come by at the moment so just wanted to say I appreciated this discussion and learnt a lot!
Seriously!! Agree there’s not nearly enough of non hyperbolic analysis, happy to help
I really appreciate it too. It has been a bit eye-opening seeing various videos on YouTube, which while having clickbait in their titles “What they don’t want you to know about China!”, are actually just normal travel videos from people that visit many countries. You see that, and the debunking of the social credit thing you mentioned. You see that some ghost cities have been become more populated.
And you also see actual misinformation on sites like X. I saw a video claiming a baby bear was drugged and declawed and being used for kids to fight with for money. And there’s hundreds of comments from outraged people about how horrible China is. When really it was just a zookeeper that had raised an abandoned bear from birth and was wrestling with it to help it learn how bears play, before being reintroduced to a normal colony.
But obviously China isn’t just this ultimate paradise that has no problems. It feels hard at times to know what is justified good and bad things from propaganda on either side. So the balanced tone here is very nice to see.
this was really good
“They really overestimate how much the average Chinese person cares about their government. It’s probably the same for Americans as well, right?” — I dunno, I think almost all Americans care a great deal about their government, and it’s a highly American quality to care. If it’s really true that most Chinese people don’t care about their government, the real questions are: Why is that the case? And is that a healthy state of affairs?
I actually agree with this - Americans care a lot more about their government than Chinese do, which is why they incorrectly project onto China, but is also a critical part of democratic culture
I think it’s more complicated than that. I think it’s mostly because China’s economy has been doing well and people’s lives are getting better, so they’re happy with the government. The question is, once things aren’t so great (which happens eventually for all countries and governments), what will happen then?
I’ve thought (from my very newbie perspective) that China really has some of the good aspects of monarchy, when it works. Long range planning, ability to just get things done, etc. They can do these ambitious projects and improve the lives of regular people. The trouble is what happens when you get a bad King/Emperor/Party that suddenly tanks everything.
Democracy is supposed to help with that issue, but it feels right now like the US has been having the worst of both worlds. Government constantly changing directions, not able to get much done, disempowered regular people, lives just keep getting worse, etc.
I’ve been feeling like one of those Gen Z people mentioned in the article. Like I know not everything is good in China, and bad things can happen to you in certain situations. But at the same time, you can see a lot of things there that we don’t have, and at least many people in big cities are having decent lives.
Title made me think DeepSeek 🤣 still going to give it a go
there’s deepseek in there! intentional double entendre
You guys should do a buddy detective piece, great vibes.
lol and I was worried it was too serious! you should've seen us before/after hitting record
Can’t fake good pod chem!
The dream collab! 梦幻联动