I loved this so much! really feel your point about how being edited is how writers learn, i think it's the biggest loss re legacy media. i did have a good experience using Claude to edit my last piece though, not to write/copyedit anything, but i asked it to critique the structure/flow and it was very constructive (it got a bit brutal too, but worth it)
thank you Sophia! and yes, I feel that editing infrastructure is SO important and consequential to the overall health of a literary community…it's why I'm always happy when new publications are founded and there are more editors determined to help shape literary production and discourse
I'm intrigued by your experiences too…I've been trying to work on my structure/flow a lot this year, and might try to use Claude/ChatGPT/etc for a critique of my next newsletter and see what the results are
Listening to you two I feel like I'm in at ground level of a new guard of "culture writing" or "arts criticism" or whatever you want to call it. Feels so fresh and exciting like when I discovered Alex Ross many many years ago who redefined what classical music criticism can be at the New Yorker (and who of course had a sorta kinda Substack back then in the form of a blog). Hope to be following your writing for just as many years to come!
This is such a tremendously generous comment—thank you, Nik! I do feel really excited about the tech + culture writing happening right now; Jasmine is, obviously, great at it, and I feel very lucky to be writing/thinking alongside her and others
I enjoyed the conversation and appreciated how the discussion of amateurism dovetailed so nicely with the descriptions of working to get better at something, and the process of acquiring expertise in a new field.
I will be mulling over the descriptions of social media hierarchy. This very much matches my experience which I think of as the ideal state of the internet, but the two of you were convincing that it's only one option among various possible configurations, "The forum model’s more like, you are one person among many other people. Some people are cooler posters on the forum, or older and more experienced. But in general, there’s this idea that you’re all on an even playing field. All your posts show up at the same size, and you’re also all speaking in this shared space. "
Thank you for listening! And I do agree that it also feels like an ideal state of the internet…but I do wonder if something like Substack (where people have a social media–like personal platform for longform work, but ALSO a space where there is intermingling and very active discourse) is a new form of sociability
Ultimately, I think the best social configurations online are capable of intellectually/creatively energizing the people who participate in them; and ideally they're also ones that promote greater trust and generosity in discourse (instead of too much suspicion, hostility, etc—which kill genuine intellectual curiosity!)
Mulling it over, something that occurs to me is that forum culture often includes some degree of being unwelcoming to newcomers. Not always bad, but a sense of, "you need to demonstrate that you know what you're talking about and have some willingness to learn the social conventions of this group before we will take you seriously."
On balance I think it's good that on Substack, for example, there are more people working to provide on-ramps for new people.
Speculating -- I wonder if forums are more closed-knit _because_ the social conventions rely more on people's earned credibility and so it has to stay small enough for people to more or less be able to recognize other users as someone they "know."
On the other hand, one of the thing that bugs me about substack (at least the corners of substack I frequent) is that there's less of a habit of using links as an important part of conversation -- I'm thinking both that there's less "link and quote" to other writers but also that there's less sense that a way for someone new to add value to a conversation is to find a trenchant link.
Speculating again I think that is partially caused by the overwhelming flow of content once you subscribe to a few dozen substacks; who has time to follow links. But also that the rewards are structured for people to emphasize their personal creative work. That isn't bad, but sometimes a link and a quote is the best way to approach something.
Today I used it to motivate me to repair an extension cord and guide me on connecting the proper color coded wires to the correct screws. I'm sure YouTube has dozens of tutorials but my own motivational coach was needed to accomplish the task.
thank you for listening! and it did feel like a lovely note to end on…especially as we approach the end of 2025…there is always time to remake ourselves and become our best selves!
This conversation nails the real split. The internet didn’t kill culture so much as it flooded the pipes, and now the scarce resource is interpretation. People who can distinguish the patterns from the noise, and turn abundance into legible taste. In a slop saturated feed, research as leisure and community level discourse are filtering infrastructure that keeps art and ideas from dissolving into metrics.
Epic convo. Traversed so many topics and aspects of creative culture. Even when speaking on writing I can see so many parallels and applications to other forms of creative work. Thank you!
I loved this so much! really feel your point about how being edited is how writers learn, i think it's the biggest loss re legacy media. i did have a good experience using Claude to edit my last piece though, not to write/copyedit anything, but i asked it to critique the structure/flow and it was very constructive (it got a bit brutal too, but worth it)
thank you Sophia! and yes, I feel that editing infrastructure is SO important and consequential to the overall health of a literary community…it's why I'm always happy when new publications are founded and there are more editors determined to help shape literary production and discourse
I'm intrigued by your experiences too…I've been trying to work on my structure/flow a lot this year, and might try to use Claude/ChatGPT/etc for a critique of my next newsletter and see what the results are
Listening to you two I feel like I'm in at ground level of a new guard of "culture writing" or "arts criticism" or whatever you want to call it. Feels so fresh and exciting like when I discovered Alex Ross many many years ago who redefined what classical music criticism can be at the New Yorker (and who of course had a sorta kinda Substack back then in the form of a blog). Hope to be following your writing for just as many years to come!
this is so kind!! hope we can live up to that haha
This is such a tremendously generous comment—thank you, Nik! I do feel really excited about the tech + culture writing happening right now; Jasmine is, obviously, great at it, and I feel very lucky to be writing/thinking alongside her and others
I enjoyed the conversation and appreciated how the discussion of amateurism dovetailed so nicely with the descriptions of working to get better at something, and the process of acquiring expertise in a new field.
I will be mulling over the descriptions of social media hierarchy. This very much matches my experience which I think of as the ideal state of the internet, but the two of you were convincing that it's only one option among various possible configurations, "The forum model’s more like, you are one person among many other people. Some people are cooler posters on the forum, or older and more experienced. But in general, there’s this idea that you’re all on an even playing field. All your posts show up at the same size, and you’re also all speaking in this shared space. "
Thank you for listening! And I do agree that it also feels like an ideal state of the internet…but I do wonder if something like Substack (where people have a social media–like personal platform for longform work, but ALSO a space where there is intermingling and very active discourse) is a new form of sociability
Ultimately, I think the best social configurations online are capable of intellectually/creatively energizing the people who participate in them; and ideally they're also ones that promote greater trust and generosity in discourse (instead of too much suspicion, hostility, etc—which kill genuine intellectual curiosity!)
Mulling it over, something that occurs to me is that forum culture often includes some degree of being unwelcoming to newcomers. Not always bad, but a sense of, "you need to demonstrate that you know what you're talking about and have some willingness to learn the social conventions of this group before we will take you seriously."
On balance I think it's good that on Substack, for example, there are more people working to provide on-ramps for new people.
Speculating -- I wonder if forums are more closed-knit _because_ the social conventions rely more on people's earned credibility and so it has to stay small enough for people to more or less be able to recognize other users as someone they "know."
On the other hand, one of the thing that bugs me about substack (at least the corners of substack I frequent) is that there's less of a habit of using links as an important part of conversation -- I'm thinking both that there's less "link and quote" to other writers but also that there's less sense that a way for someone new to add value to a conversation is to find a trenchant link.
Speculating again I think that is partially caused by the overwhelming flow of content once you subscribe to a few dozen substacks; who has time to follow links. But also that the rewards are structured for people to emphasize their personal creative work. That isn't bad, but sometimes a link and a quote is the best way to approach something.
I'm liking AI for daily dream analysis and other friendly banter and chit chat, or bouncing ideas around. Travel planning, too.
travel planning definitely (I was on the bus a few weeks ago and watched a woman plan an entire weekend trip using ChatGPT on her phone)
Today I used it to motivate me to repair an extension cord and guide me on connecting the proper color coded wires to the correct screws. I'm sure YouTube has dozens of tutorials but my own motivational coach was needed to accomplish the task.
I really loved this convo!!! and really liked the end note on just believing in self transformation. 💗💗 thank you both 😊😊
thank you for listening! and it did feel like a lovely note to end on…especially as we approach the end of 2025…there is always time to remake ourselves and become our best selves!
had so many "woo!" moments reading through this - thanks so much both!
woo!
Jasmine and Celine: What a thoughtful conversation. Thank you! Geremie
thank you for listening, Geremie! and for your kind comment as well
Awesome interview on culture and creative pursuits — I found it very encouraging! Thank you!
thank you for listening—and really really glad to hear you enjoyed!
This conversation nails the real split. The internet didn’t kill culture so much as it flooded the pipes, and now the scarce resource is interpretation. People who can distinguish the patterns from the noise, and turn abundance into legible taste. In a slop saturated feed, research as leisure and community level discourse are filtering infrastructure that keeps art and ideas from dissolving into metrics.
Epic convo. Traversed so many topics and aspects of creative culture. Even when speaking on writing I can see so many parallels and applications to other forms of creative work. Thank you!